Hi Brady, thanks for engaging the community and reassuring us. Is there a guarantee that the solution for educational users will remain free?
I came across cloud9 IDE and started using it because of how easy it was to register and get started, I work at a university and sometimes do part-time lecturing & tutoring, because of the great personal experience I had with it I started telling students about it and had intentions of using it in the upcoming semester in a class that usually contains 30+ students, however most students don’t usually have credit cards. I understand the thing you are saying about abusers however you are loosing potential customers and growth of use of your IDE which I believe is one of the very best. I think that you all should have some other means of registration for students and Academics. Because universities would usually listen to the demands of the students before purchasing any external products, but students would only demand after they have experienced c9 for themselves. Through students and academics using the tool, you have a better chance of getting Universities of actually becoming potential customers, however the less students and academics using your IDE because of not having credit cards, then the less likely it is for a university to be willing to purchase something that they aren’t sure there students want.
Thank you for your struggling for attacks to Cloud9 and considering about educators and students.
I wish you Cloud9 had a free or cheaper plan for academic school or educational institutions.
On the other hand, I really know it’s a business for you. Sustainability and safety of Cloud9 is more important than charities in this situation.
But, in my idea, it’s not bad idea for your to give some resources from you to students because they might become great business and paid customers of Cloud9.
In the long term…for an immeasurable time, it would be good marketing and advertisement in the future.
This group is predominately adults who are looking to change jobs, i.e. the successful ones will hopefully have web dev jobs in the not too distant future.
We have hands-on presentations once a month, where we’ve got just under an hour to cover whatever topic it is that we’re covering for the month. The ease of having them log in with their github account (which most have already) was seamless, fast, and didn’t drastically distract from our very short time to cover an actual coding topic.
While I suspect most of our attendees have credit cards, the new registration process, which would require users to pull out their credit card in a very public environment (literally seated should-to-shoulder) is a deal-breaker!
As you consider alternatives for K12 students, please also consider groups like ours. Something as simple as providing a trial account that is fast to sign-up for and limited to a single project, would meet our needs and expose these future developers to C9.
Education Plan FAQs
It is really repulsive that we need to provide a credit card. I am a student, and I don’t have a credit card. Having cloud9 would really benefit in my programming classes, which I often have to do on university computers.
I really hope you make it possible again to use Cloud 9 without credit cards.
prevent people form countrys where credit cards are not so widely spread from signing up
I work at a non-profit that has LOVED Cloud 9 for several years and serves over 600 High School Students.
I just want to echo a lot of the talk here by saying this CC verification completely blocks us from using it in our classrooms. I am excited to see which work-around your team decides to go with. I think all of the suggestions from @neztab are reasonable. Phone verification could cause some challenges as many schools do not allow cell phones in the classroom but if that is what is needed we can work with that particular solution.
It looks like you are hoping to have a solution before the school year begins which is great! I must comment however, if a solution is not proposed by that deadline we will be forced to find a different IDE for our students to work in.
We have our fingers crossed that we can use Cloud 9
I’d like add a lone voice of understanding and approval for this change. Cloud9 offers an amazing and powerful resource: unlimited free workspaces. A lot of damage can be done with that. All major cloud providers end up going this route for the same reason. It’s effective, and I’m glad they did it. Though I am very surprised they didn’t provide a recourse for education. They must have been desperate to stop the abuse quickly.
@justincy - I can’t speak for everyone in this thread, but based on my own perspective and how I read the other posts, it appears that yours is not the “lone voice of understanding” of the problem that the C9 crew is trying to address. In fact, several posters made explicit statements of understanding, including:
Several posters, including myself, are suggesting alternative methods that can help C9 address the problems they are experiencing - while retaining support for communities that have been negatively impacted by the current method. (Which I take as implicit understanding of the challenge they are addressing.)
One of the reasons so many of us are taking the time to post to this thread is that we want C9 to be able to continue providing service to these groups. In fact, the current policy may actually hinder C9’s growth.
For example, at my group I changed the cloud IDE provider that I used for this week’s presentation. I mentioned that one of the reasons we were using non-C9 service, was because of C9’s credit card requirement. I also asked people to let me know afterwards whether they would have been willing to sign-up for C9.
I had three people come up to me after the presentation. All three said they absolutely would not sign-up with a credit card in a classroom setting. One of them already has a paid C9 account, but said if I have to switch my presentations over to an alternative service, she’ll switch her support to that service. The other two were new and said that the alternative was clearly good enough, and it wasn’t worth trying another cloud IDE anytime in the near future. In other words, C9 has already lost two potential customers and if the policy doesn’t change they will likely lose some paying customers.
Everyone on this thread wants C9 to be able to service the wide range of communities that it previously supported. To do that C9 has to be a sustainable business.
Preventing misuse (e.g. spambots) and providing credit card-free registration are not mutually exclusive goals. In fact, finding a solution that achieves both goals is in C9’s best interest because it will increase sustainability of the business.
I like your idea of limiting non-verified accounts to one workspace.
Do you think SMS verification would be a better alternative to credit card validation?
It would be for my folks, but several other posters mentioned that phones are problematic (e.g. not allowed in classrooms or students who simply don’t have phones).
I don’t think phone or credit card verification is really looking at the issue, which is: people using c9 workspaces for malicious reasons - bots, DDOSing, phishing, etc. Phone verification can be easily circumvented through temporary online phone numbers, and as another user mentioned, anyone can buy a Visa/Amex gift card and use that without revealing their actual identity.
Netzeb came up with a few suggestions that I think would actually be effective:
- Automatically lock accounts that show signs of malicious activity (nmap, email spamming, hosting malware, etc.)
- Automatically lock accounts that break any of the user agreement policies
Maybe it’s possible to monitor outbound traffic on workspaces? Or possibly have a quick splash screen for first-time visitors to combat phishing? Just some ideas.
Just thought I’d put my two bits here.
Was adding CC verification really the last resort? I’m fairly certain that this will cost Cloud9 many new potential customers. After all, I was really satisfied with Cloud9 on day one, referred it to friends and got really hyped about all of this. Part of the reason for this was the ease of the set-up - you chose an account name and an e-mail address and everything was up and running. If I had to verify a credit card, I definitely would’ve been scared - it’s just something I do not want to enter into a website that all I want to do with is try out. Obviously, if you already know that you’re going to use Cloud9 professionally, then a CC verification is not a problem for you, but if you only want to attract these users, why don’t you just completely remove the Free plan? I’m already searching for alternatives, because I know that potential collaborators will not be ready to enter their CC info for a product they can’t even try out.
I just don’t see how any of the reasons you gave should result in a CC verification. For bots and DDOSers, how about simply adding Captchas to the log-in progress and whenever one sends too many requests to the service? I don’t see how Phishing ever was a problem with Cloud9.
The only problem that CC verification really solves is the non-malicious part: signing up for 5 accounts in order to get the same 5 private workspaces that premium users get. Why don’t you just make the user verify his credit card (or phone number) as soon as he tries to create a private workspace? While that would make it impossible for abusers to make 5 free accounts, it wouldn’t scare away potential new customers - they could still try Cloud9 with all of its features and once they know it’s good they’ll enter their CC info with no fear.
For me, this seems more like a move to separate those who would potentially pay for a plan from those who wouldn’t.
Here’s how I’d like the university account to work;
I, as instructor, start with a paid account which has the same functionality as the Individual account ($19).
In addition, I’d be able to create, manage, and delete class groups
A class group would be composed of one or more student accounts
4 A student account would:
- have its own userid/password (unique to io9) - be configured with one private space - the private space would be editable by both the student and the instructor - the private space could be made viewable, or not viewable, to the rest of the students in the class - students would not be able to delete, or upgrade, their own account - a script could be used to create a student workspace (optional ) If unavailable part of the course would cover setting up the student's workspace. From io9's perspective it'd probably be better this was because you'd indirectly get, at no additional cost to you, free hands-on training with ci9 to a group potential new clients
I would love this (and I would pay the shit out of it), but to clarify, are student accounts also allowed to have other public spaces? I am in a situation where my students would require more than one workspace over the years (I teach them for 3 years consecutively).
Oh yes, a student account would be free but it would be associated with the instructors account.
Why only one private space? Most training classes (about 99%+) would not require the ability for a student to create multiple private instances, unlimited SSH spaces, three hot workspaces, or increased performance. They would not need ci9 email support either. Any support would be provided by the instructor who, of course, would have access to your support team.
Why charge anything for a student account when they only need one private space and all the rest of the interaction is between student and instructor, not c9?
Ah, I see. I had assumed that the student account made through an instructor account would need an email linked to it, and each email would only be able to be associated with one account. Eliminating that and making it a pure username/password combo with the instructor having access to the password reset would solve everything.
Although a word of caution, Codio was once a free service much like cloud9 but they have turned into an educational platform, billing per year per student, and this made it very expensive for some (most) schools to afford.
@bradydowling thoughts on responses so far?
I’d be nice if c9 could handle that but it’d be just as effective to delete the student’s instance at the end of the class and create a new one for the next class.
If the student needed their data from one class to the next ci9 already provides a method to download and zip a directory. All they’d have to do is upload the zip to the new instance.
By the way, I’m not with c9.io I’d just like them to provide something like this.
By the way c9 did you notice timmyichen’s comments (and I would pay the shit out of it)? You wouldn’t have to hit the instructor with too much additional cost because in a way they are, for practical purposes, marking c9 to their students. How much would that cost c9 if they were to do it themselves?
Might even consider giving the service to the instructors. ;o)
The instructor wouldn’t need any special username/password reset because that’s already an existing function within c9.
New requirement. A student account would have an email associated with it that would be used pretty much only for a student to reset his password.
New requirement. A student account would never be billed for anything. Why? They only get a limited free account and the student would be unable to upgrade or delete their account.
c9 already has a market. Their potential market is the millions of developers out there. They work in bulk since their focus in on providing collaborative development environments in bulk.
They want more developers to sign up for ci9. Instructors are effectively providing a marketing channel directly to the people who would be interested in becoming ci9 customers. Right ci9?